ADR and the move to Electric vehicles??

Discussion in 'Professional Fireworks' started by dogsbody, Jan 22, 2021.

  1. dogsbody

    dogsbody Pro Firer/Crew

    If im right in thinking, ADR regs state must be a diesel engine, but with the sale if internal combustion engine vehicles ceasing in 2030, apart from a lot of older vehicles being kept to so ADR runs, has anyone in the industry strated looking at this? @TLG ?
     
    scoops likes this.
  2. TLG

    TLG Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    Not given it a though really since nothing has been happening this year although this has got me trying to imagine a motorway full of lorries all running off batteries. Will batteries be capable of sustaining such a big vehicle carrying a few tons of cargo at speed?
     
  3. blackbat

    blackbat Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    Ask Elon Musk - he's the one making them.
     
    RCT likes this.
  4. TLG

    TLG Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    He's not answering his mobile at the moment.
     
    Jon, RCT, danielpyronutter and 2 others like this.
  5. elmo

    elmo Pro Firer/Crew

    Did you mean TGR ?
     
    dogsbody, RCT and Pyro Pete like this.
  6. danielpyronutter

    danielpyronutter Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    His Watsapp is showing as online try messaging him ;)
     
  7. TLG

    TLG Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    I dont have Whatsapp, since you have him online ill leave it to you ;)
     
    RCT likes this.
  8. danielpyronutter

    danielpyronutter Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

  9. dogsbody

    dogsbody Pro Firer/Crew

    Maybe! I had just finished reading a 17 page document on it for work and it mentioned vans briefly, just got me wondering!
    @TGR ?
     
    elmo likes this.
  10. Celtic Fireworks

    Celtic Fireworks UKFR Sponsor

    Yes ADR states - In the case of EXII and EXIII vehicles the engine shall be of compression-ignition construction using only liquid fuels with a flashpoint above 55°C. (Petrol is way under this)

    However as far as I am aware if you are under the requirements of needing an EXII vehicle then you should be okay (I stand to be corrected on this if I've got it wrong).

    ADR regulations are; if you are above 20kg NEC (1.3G) then you need an EXII but the UK has an exemption to allow up to 2500kg NEC per vehicle without the requirement of an EX II (Hazard Type 1.3 & 1.4.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2021
    Chorlton Fireworks and Pyro Ed like this.
  11. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    Could we be pedantic and say an electric powered van doesn't have an engine - it has a motor - so the regs about engines don't apply? (Can you tell I originally studied electrical engineering and used to be a Civil Servant dealing with interpreting and applying regulations?!)
     
    JamesTPG and Chorlton Fireworks like this.
  12. dogsbody

    dogsbody Pro Firer/Crew

    You can be pedantic, but my reading of the regs is it must be a compression-ignition construction using only liquid fuels with a flashpoint above 55°C. So therefore must be an internal combustion engine not battery.
    I think under the derogations the vehicle still needs to be diesel?
     
  13. starseeker

    starseeker Pro Firer/Crew

    Seems that car batteries weigh in the region of 700kg ,just think what a lorries would weigh ?
     
  14. Pyro Ed

    Pyro Ed Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    Yes easily. Most lorries engines are no more than around 375kw under max load. That's really not hard to do in electrical terms. Infact two tesla model 3 motors would do that even under sustained load. The problem really lies with the cost of batteries, and also recharging them. You'd probably need a MW or something rediculous of battery capacity...
     
  15. The amount of power per KG of battery is growing at a massive rate, they are currently testing around 400Wh / KG.

    A few years ago we were at 60ishWh / KG.

    I believe along with the increased Wh, comes increased charging capacity and speed, as they go hand in hand.

    Who knows what 2030 will bring when certain cars start being phased out.
     
  16. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    They used to run submarines on batteries! (Betraying my age there!)

    So big electric powered vehicles can be done. As has been said, the power output / weight of battery ratio is much better now than it was for submarines in the past. So a van or lorry doesn't need to carry too big a volume or weight of battery. I see the big issues as being range and down time whilst recharging. A lorry can be kept profitably on the road almost round the clock with quick refuelling stops and a change of driver. Recharging times will hit that and potentially reduce profitability with a consequent cost implication.

    The infrastructure required might also limit how fast the government can move away from petrol and diesel. One traditional petrol or diesel fuel pump can refuel vehicles at many per hour. We'd need many more charging points - with all the parking spaces that go with them - and the loading on the electricity national grid / local substations that will have to be upgraded. In my last parish we kept having power outages because the substation was running at capacity and a local shop installed a few more fridges & freezers! It wasn't like building more houses that the planners would know about. The shop hadn't been drawing the maximum it's circuit was rated for, so it could simply plug in more load and no-one knew. So it took a while to find the cause of the power outages in the locality. Then the local substation had to be upgraded to increase its capacity. When homes and businesses all install vehicle charging points and run them at the same time, then something will give (i.e. you can't put the kettle on, cook dinner while the car charges, have a shower etc. run machinery in your business or light your warehouse) or have to be upgraded and that will be a big job nationally. Can you imagine "Dear Tesco, you can plug in all your home delivery vans to recharge them, but there isn't enough capacity in the system for you to open your shop at the same time." ?
     
  17. blackbat

    blackbat Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    You're not betraying your age at all! Many (most?) submarines are still diesel electric due to the costs and other obvious complications with having a nuclear reactor on board.
     
  18. Dodgey

    Dodgey Pro Firer/Crew

    I was just thinking the same :)

    They have snorkels to exhaust engine fumes and suck in air, when recharging the batteries. Though they are almost as vulnerable as when they are surfaced, according to a program on the telly box I saw a while ago. (anyone else think PBS on freeview is amazing! :) )
     
    RocketRev likes this.
  19. No good asking TGR they have an exemption certificate their drivers don’t need ADR
     
    dogsbody likes this.