BPA Requirements

Discussion in 'Professional Fireworks' started by Sonic Fireworks, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    And without being rude to cliff & only because I’ve known him for so long, I bet he looked like that too :D
  2. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    I also read with interest that the Directors not being covered by ELI has popped up, Good.

    I’m always amazed at how many Directors think they are employees which they are but not under ELI, you need to have yet another policy for the Directors inc family member Directors.

    Unless you’ve had a special change written in your MEM’s for the company.

  3. Back to the original question at hand! I've been meaning to post for days but haven't got round to it.

    To me the ADR and DGSA requirement seems superfluous. I think it is perfectly feasible for a firework company to exist by carrying loads up to 50kg 1.3 (or a mix of 1.3 and 1.4 using Road Derogation 5). And ultimately it wouldn't cost a lot to become a fully ADR trained driver or hire a DGSA, so what does that achieve?

    I also believe it would be incredibly valuable to bring importers and retailers on board to create a combined force with display companies. Surely the role an importer/retailer has in supplying the public with fireworks is just as important as a display company? We all want the same thing which is for people to enjoy fireworks, but I obviously appreciate making money is the driving factor. But the outside view as shown in this thread and others is that the BPA is in need of modernising, and so it's great to see that several BPA members have shown their support in listening to feedback. Out of interest, who is the BPA actually run by? The chairpersons are firework company directors and the contact address is in Kimbolton, so I guess that at least part answers my question? But if this is the case then how can it be healthy having display companies running the industry body, even if they are elected? It would be like Chelsea, Arsenal and Manchester United/City running the FA...

    And from someone who runs a firework business on the side I do still try to run my business profitably and in line with others, though admittedly this is much easier on the retail side. Hours and hours of either writing pages of risk assessments, COPs, filling out countless other bits of paperwork and then fusing, fusing, fusing and clearing up cardboard disks isn't just for the love of it and has to have some financial reward. Running the business as a side venture does as least allow me some luxurious such as refusing to do psychological pricing, i.e. £39.99, and not advertising half price fireworks that are not really half price.

    And whilst I appreciate sub £1000 displays are not adored by everyone, in my opinion they are fair game. It's a bit like saying that any car that costs less than £10,000 is not worth selling, but not everyone can afford a fancy Ford and may be perfectly happy with a Dacia Sandero (I'm slightly biased with this analogy as I love small underpowered cars, but I digress). And not to try and pull heart strings too much but it really has helped some local communities that used to do displays themselves but can no longer afford the insurance, as it would be such a shame to lose these events entirely and many of these events are fundraisers for the local community or charities. And on the flip side as said by others, I get frustrated by seeing a display that costs many thousands and involves firing one shell (or even rockets, as fired by one BPA company) at a time for 30 minutes, because that's a top quality display in their opinion. But at the end of the day everyone has different opinions on what's right and what's wrong, and that's what makes life frustrating but equally interesting.

    Anyway, with all this said and done, I'm happy to help whenever and wherever I can to help improve our industry, even if it's just make the tea at meetings ;)


    Edit: I forgot to add that I do recognise that members and individuals of the BPA that are on this forum have done a great deal of good for the firework industry and everyone who enjoys fireworks owe them a great deal. But I think the general consensus is that there is some room for improvement to iron out some issues that can maybe only be done if we all work together.
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2017
  4. paul s

    paul s Supports UKFR

    Some very pertinent, and imo accurate, points in that paragraph.
    Jon Coles and Sonic Fireworks like this.
  5. Can you give me just one example of what you think the BPA has done for the Good?
    You think I owe them?
  6. Just to note, the associated membership for importers, insurance companies and the like has been discussed and is to be voted on. I do believe / hope it will be passed.
    Jon and Sonic Fireworks like this.
  7. From what's been posted on this forum before Mark @Firework Crazy and Steve @TGR attend various meetings behind the scenes with TS (and I believe the government) and it is my belief that these members are fighting the corner of the firework industry as a whole when it comes to reviewing legislation etc. not only routinely but also when petitions for banning go up for debate. I don't know if there are non-BPA members that take part in these meetings and nor do I have any minutes from these meetings, but it is my belief that having members of the BPA as a voice is better than none at all. If we had no industry voice at all maybe fireworks law would be more restricted as would TS and the government listen to display companies if there was no BPA? I suspect not as much. But is it right to have the BPA as a buy-in club as the industry body? Definitely not.

    I'm not sure associate membership is the answer either. In my full time job I was an associate member of the Royal Society of Chemistry and I may as well not have bothered as you are still playing second fiddle to full members and are largely overlooked. This came down to academic qualifications rather than real world experience, and in the end I was able to persuade the RSC that 10 years real world experience was as valuable if not more than a university graduate with none. Whether or not the BPA would have such flexibility with their entry requirements I do not know.
  8. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    I must catch up on more of the notes, as I don’t get chance to goto the meetings often due to the bloody distance.

    So good to hear there thinking about it.

  9. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    I just wanted to say thank you for putting this together, I feel you hit the nail on the head many times & it’s great to hear people’s opinions, thoughts & most importantly there ideas.

    POB's Pyro likes this.
  10. Charlie

    Charlie Pro Firer/Crew

    When we started the company 6 years ago one of the first things I did was to look at joining the BPA and found we couldn't.

    As we have happily been going for 6 years now growing from strength to strength without being a member of the BPA (not through choice) I cannot see any benefit to now joining for £500 a year just because we can.

    Had they accepted small companies we would of joined 6 years ago and they would of been £3000 better off by now with another £500 coming in next year, and the year after, and the year after......!

    It should be open to everyone involved in the business in whatever capacity, small and large. Presumably then it would be a trade body with an overview of the whole trade and be better equipped to discuss important legislation matters with government bodies etc.

    Just my 2p's worth.
    Pyro Ed, Pyromania, Georgeh and 6 others like this.
  11. Skydazzle Pyrotechnics

    Skydazzle Pyrotechnics Pro Firer/Crew

    I don't see small Display Companies mentioned or turnover restrictions being removed in this statement??
  12. Skydazzle Pyrotechnics

    Skydazzle Pyrotechnics Pro Firer/Crew

    Just had my renewal documents through this afternoon. Changes to the part I quoted earlier have been made and are as follows:

    I think that closes any loopholes or doubts about PLI being required...........
  13. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    I think quote a few freelancers are going to be re thinking there charging structures now the need PLI
    Jon likes this.
  14. luke

    luke Pro Firer/Crew

    The thing is if I need to have PLI I will need to charge accordingly, otherwise I need to be paid as an employee with an hourly rate with all the extra bits that entails, lunch breaks, holiday pay etc.
  15. Arthur

    Arthur Pro Firer/Crew

    So now all freelancers will be paid a rate commensurate with the costs of having their own PLI, which IME is unavailable without the insurer's approval of your licensed store.

    This simply adds cost, having seasonal casual employees adds work and paperwork.
  16. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    It seems bloody daft to me that just because some of my crew are on invoice & others are PAYE they have to hold different documents.

    Will be talking to Precision in the morning about a far better solution.

    Yes if it’s been sub contracted out then I agree that that sub contractor needs every thing but just because there self employed and wiring on my show & under my control then my EL & PL should cover them.
    Jon and Pyromania like this.
  17. Arthur

    Arthur Pro Firer/Crew

    If HSE are to be believed (!) then every self employed person is a point of liability and responsibility, so a self employed "lead firer" may have a PLI responsibility for the audience and an ELI responsibility to subordinate firers who might still need PLI
  18. Skydazzle Pyrotechnics

    Skydazzle Pyrotechnics Pro Firer/Crew

    Arthur you are just talking total shite as usual........please keep these stupid and totally irrelevant comments to yourself and out of this thread which is dealing with a serious issue. The HSE have no input on this at all, it is an insurance issue.
  19. Pyro Productions

    Pyro Productions Pro Firer/Crew

    Should carry?

    That is clear as mud!
    Charlie likes this.