BPA Requirements

Discussion in 'Professional Fireworks' started by Sonic Fireworks, Nov 16, 2017.

  1. Jon

    Jon Pro Firer/Crew

    I don' understand why this is the case for Labour only subcontractors, they are only being employed for the physical labour of the job (such as rigging, wiring etc) and hold no position of responsibility. I feel this is insurance companies just trying to keep themselves in business. Whether the person is self employed or not should not make a difference to the job responsibility.
  2. luke

    luke Pro Firer/Crew

    It’s the insurance companies trying to reduce the likelihood of them having to pay out, in todays blame culture, if you can shift the blame on to someone else then great.

    But as I posted earlier if it means all crew being on the books, minimum wage needs to be paid, working time directive looked in to, as does holiday and pensions, also PPE you’d need to provide adequate clothing and tools for the crew to do the job in all weathers which all adds up even if that member of crew only does a show or two per year. Lunch breaks, welfare facilities etc.

    I’m more than happy to look in to insurance for myself but it will mean the bill being footed by the company I’m working for. If I have to pay £1000 pa for insurance for instance than based on 20 shows a year that’s and extra £50 per show I need to bill for just to recoup that cost.
  3. Willott

    Willott Supports UKFR

    Maybe they should look to use some of these extremely new and complex technologies such as skype for business and have virtual meetings... would possibly mean greater engagement.
    Sonic Fireworks likes this.
  4. Great so if the BPA get all the insurance companies to join does that mean The BPA will force them to say BPA is the ONLY way to be a person with specialist knowledge. which will mean no more small companies. considering there are only 4 insurance companies that wont be hard to do.

    this labor only self employed stuff. well that's total confused me as i dont know any insurance that do PL for a individual labour only in fireworks. sounds like another way for insurance companies to make more money and push away liability. For a insurance company to say we will insure all the general public, property, PAYE employees and me. but if i dont take tax off them at the point of payment then technically they are not working for me so they are not insured. :confused::confused:o_O

    Do members of the BPA elect because 7 chairperson must get so messy. do they override the members or do they have the majority vote ?
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2017
  5. Sonic Fireworks

    Sonic Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    It’s been suggested I believe, we were going to do some training remote, so I can’t see why the meetings can’t be the same.
  6. Mike, who's this with?
  7. This is what my Precision policy states.

    Person Employed
    Means any:
    1 person under a contract of service or apprenticeship with the Insured;
    2 labour master or labour-only subcontractor or person supplied by any of them;
    3 self-employed person;
    4 person hired to or borrowed by the Insured;
    5 person undertaking study or work experience;
    6 person supplied to the Insured under a contract or agreement, the terms of which deem such person to be in the employment of the Insured;
    7 voluntary worker or temporary worker;
    8 driver under Construction Plant-hire Association conditions; while working under the control of the Insured in connection with the Business.​
    Jon likes this.
  8. Yep, I suggested this at a meeting earlier in the year.
    Sonic Fireworks likes this.
  9. Charlie

    Charlie Pro Firer/Crew

    Same as ours.
    argentc likes this.
  10. Skydazzle Pyrotechnics

    Skydazzle Pyrotechnics Pro Firer/Crew

    Insurance is with Arthur J. Gallagher Insurance Brokers. This latest definition is in my proposal for renewal, so maybe yours will change as well.

    I don't understand why firers want to be sub-contractors and I don't get why they suddenly are demanding all these benefits just because they have to be "employed" to comply with insurance. It is not Display Companies that are doing this and I have only highlighted the issue to ensure they are aware of the risks.
  11. luke

    luke Pro Firer/Crew

    It’s not so much firers demanding these benefits it’s what an employed person is legally entitled to.
    And HMRC will happily fine you for non compliance if reported to them.
    Sonic Fireworks likes this.
  12. Skydazzle Pyrotechnics

    Skydazzle Pyrotechnics Pro Firer/Crew

    I am bowing out of this conversation now as it has become a firers against Companies ........My intention was to highlight the pitfalls of being a sub-contractor as far as insurance cover was concerned.

    Anyone that has worked for me knows they get well looked after, paid well, even on Competitions, and are fully insured.
    Pyromania, elmo and Sonic Fireworks like this.
  13. Pyro Ed

    Pyro Ed Pro Firer/Crew

    I had this back: With regard to the question of Employers Liability, insurers don’t make any distinction between PAYE and freelancers and treat both as if they were employees. There isn’t a stipulation on the policy to say that freelancers have to have their own Public Liability insurance.

    Seems pretty reasonable to me.
    Pyro Productions and Locky Smith like this.
  14. Andy Pittam

    Andy Pittam Pro Firer/Crew

    So assuming I’m not being thick, any/all of the above circumstances will constitute employees and will be covered by my precision ELI???
    Sonic Fireworks and Pyro Ed like this.
  15. Hi Andy

    Yes, that's how I read it and that's from a policy that was renewed a few weeks ago.
    Sonic Fireworks likes this.
  16. Our firers are given the option to go PAYE or to be subcontracted. Those that are PAYE get all the benefits of being an employee. Some opt to invoice me as they are already self employed.
  17. NJE Fireworks

    NJE Fireworks Pro Firer/Crew

    Untitled 1 (10).png
    I put this image on our FB page about 6 weeks ago and yesterday I got an email from the BPA telling me to remove there logo within 7 days or there would be further action as I am not a member only a firer.They had a complaint from a firework company that is a member.(very sad).
    I called the BPA to see if I could use this logo as I thought it was important for my clients to see that I am BPA qualified.They said NO but you can use an image from your BPA card.Followed by but the City & Guilds wont be happy about that!
    I have now made up my own image to state I am a BPA Firer.
    What a lot of nonsense from this Association who will not let me come a member cause I do not do £70000 grand worth of displays a year and in there words that makes me NOT professional.Well,well,well,I thought the BPA was here to help and guide us and not Discriminate.
    I have also asked for a copy of there copyright of there image(which I haven't received yet)
  18. I've been fighting for many years to allow smaller companies to join, alas they don't seem to see my argument. Well some do, but some don't. I'll let you try and work out who.
    NJE Fireworks likes this.
  19. Jon

    Jon Pro Firer/Crew

    Believe it or but it was LOWERED to £70k!!!!

    I wouldn't bother fighting them. I think you are made the right choice to still advertise you are a qualified individual, HOWEVER, as I am sure you are aware from their training they do make a big thing out saying "just because you have the qualification does not make you a member".
    NJE Fireworks likes this.
  20. B19_TLG

    B19_TLG Pro Firer/Crew

    It’s a shame. I’m currently in arguments with them because the company I fired for previously have witheld my card and certificate for firing for another company more local to myself.

    The BPA won’t sent it to me directly because the “cartel-esque” way it’s run means I’m of no financial benefit to them.

    Starting to think they only exist to protect an industry for the “old boys” with deep pockets. Which is counter intuitive if you want a safe growing industry. Thank goodness for Illuminate Consult.