No Ignition Despite WPS Tiny Continuity Reading

Discussion in 'Firing Systems And Fusing Fireworks' started by EViS, Jun 5, 2018.

  1. I recently purchase a WPS Tiny and used it for the first time, the first time using a remote firing system.

    Having connected eight talons and the Tiny confirming continuity (red and blue led's flashing on each q), I commenced the show. However, three of the eight cakes (3, 5 and 7) wouldn't ignite. Could this be due to a defective firing unit, poor quality talons, or did I mess up connecting the talons somehow (despite the Tiny confirming continuity)?
     
  2. hofnerite

    hofnerite Supports UKFR

    Could be a number of things, assuming the firing system is working correctly:
    • Talon filament is damaged or faulty, breaking too quickly when fired.
    • Thicker/coated visco is tough to light with talons.
    • Where the wires are inserted into the unit, the copper may be twisted so they touch - this will show continuity but not fire.
    • Not enough current to fire talons.
    Do you know if the talons actually fired (even if the visco didn't light)? Was the unit showing continuity AFTER they were fired?
     
  3. It's definitely not point 3, I double checked this during setup. Either three of the other points could be the issue. How can I confirm and avoid these potential issues next time?

    I didn't actually check the talons or continuity afterwards :(.
     
  4. hofnerite

    hofnerite Supports UKFR

    Have a play with more talons - do three lots of 8 and see how many fire. If they all fire then it's not the unit.
    I've switched completely over to e-matches for my last few displays. Even after checking and double checking, there were always several talons fail to fire in any display I did.
     
    Locky Smith likes this.
  5. Any drawbacks to e-matches over talons?
     
  6. hofnerite

    hofnerite Supports UKFR

    None really. Different way of fusing - I insert them directly into the lift charge for instant ignition. Not tried the ematch consumer clips that attach to visco but they are probably more reliable than talons.
     
  7. Great, thanks for the help ;).
     
  8. mike frost

    mike frost Pro Firer/Crew

    Talons do take a longer pulse to ignite so that could be the case,
     
  9. I’ve found Talons hit and miss, though its probably my handling of them.

    Not sure if you used the Mote or 12CH remote with the Tiny. The Tiny manual mentions a default pulse time of 1.0secs with the Mote, it doesn’t seem to mention the 12CH pulse time. Other systems like Cobra use a Talon pulse of 2.0secs. Maybe worth checking, though I expect the WPS system has been well tested on the default time.

    I think the Tiny runs on 9V PP3 batteries ?
    Talons need more current than ematch and I believe some PP3s can struggle. Maybe worth load testing the Battery or just trying a Talon directly to the Battery.
     
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2018
    Pyro Pete likes this.
  10. PyroAsh

    PyroAsh Supports UKFR

    I've never looked back after switching to E matches, in fact I haven't had a single failure. The consumer E matches work very well too (The ones with the eyelet on the end) just thread the visco though and away you go.
     
    Madfish likes this.
  11. K9Girl

    K9Girl Batteries not included Supports UKFR

    hofnerite likes this.
  12. Completely agree with Matthewl.... Talons take up to 2 seconds to fire so you will need to use the WPS mote to adjust pulse time. Switch to e-match igniters and you shouldn't have any problems even using the 12ch remote.
     
    Pyro Pete likes this.
  13. I will just echo what most have already said, but 1 second with fresh 9v PP3 is mostly fine for the talons I have tested (they glow and break pretty instantly). The more tricky part is how they are attached to the visco and how visco is made. Some do have wax coating that make them hard to ignite with talons.
     
    Donnie and Pyro Pete like this.
  14. Does a 1 sec pulse time mean that I should be pressing down on the remote button for at least 1 sec?

    On a side note, whilst initially familiarising myself with the system, without any talons connected, I did find that the higher up I went in the channels, the weaker the signal seemed to be (i.e. I had to stand closer to the Tiny receiver). Is this normal?

    Either way, sounds like I need to switch to e matches. Any particular recommendation for ones? Or are they all much of a muchness and simply purchase the cheapest I can find?
     
  15. Jon

    Jon Pro Firer/Crew

    I have shot 6 shows with Cobra with talons over 5 years (due to the shows being demoed to consumers who may be interested in electronic firing without using emataches) and over those shows I have had 7 failures:

    4 where the metal wires were not separated by the person setting up
    1 where water soaked the fuse pre show
    2 where the talons failed continuity and where replaced pre show and obvious fired fine for the show

    Each show fired about 80 talons and covered a range of effects (cakes, wheels, rockets, gerbs etc).....so my success rate really shows that talons are not as poor as you may first think. It's just about learning your firing system, prepping fuses if needed (though I rarely bother) and being methodical in checking the setup and testing.

    I would say going to the effort of buying brass spikes and spiking igniters in is probably far more dangerous....more So over large quantities as you get tired and take short cuts or stop thinking. There will also be common problems such as damp or bare wires touching.
     
    pyrobrit and Pyro Pete like this.
  16. No, it's the time that the Module (the Tiny in your case) is programmed to pass power to the Igniter.
    The Tiny Manual says it's configurable when used with the Mote. (Not sure if you're using the Mote or 12CH remote).

    Some Firing Systems do pass power for as long you hold down the Remote button, though it's System dependent.
    I'm not sure if WPS does this. You could wait for a WPS owner to reply, or test it yourself.
    (Connect an old filament XmasTreeBulb or small car/auto bulb to your Tiny, and see if it stays lit while holding down the remote button for a long time).
     
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2018
  17. Wondering the same thing myself. I've seen some discussions saying Branded MJG matches are better than the Chinese ones, but other comments saying they're no better. Either way, the choice seems to be limited for Consumer users.
     
  18. Regarding the signal strength, please check this article. There should be no signal difference between pressing Cue 1 and Cue 12. Also make sure you are using fresh decent quality 9v PP3 (poundland 9V might not always be reliable).
     
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2018
    Donnie likes this.
  19. Yes, I was using brand new Duracell Plus Power batteries. I understand that all 9v batteries are also known as 'PP3', i.e. PP3 simply refers to this type of 9v battery? Or does PP3 denote some form of additional spec that not all 9v batteries have?
     
  20. hofnerite

    hofnerite Supports UKFR

    Nope, both the same thing.
     
    Wireless Pyro Solutions and EViS like this.