rocket smoke?

Discussion in 'Fireworks Forum Chat And Discussion' started by michael warner, Feb 9, 2021.

  1. HI All,

    Bit of an odd question that came up from a family member and i dont know the answer to it so i thought I would ask.

    (ok I know in theory it is possible its more is it legal and would there be any practical elements i havent thought about)

    could you tie a smoke grenade to a rocket stick to set off a trail of colored smoke as the rocket takes off.

    I will clarify what I have already considered- 1) assuming larger rocket and lighter smoke grenade in twighlight hours so not to dark to see smoke but not to light for fire work.

    2) assuming that the grenade is made of cardboard paper or plastic and will fall in to a designated fall out area (and not on someone's head)

    3) the extra weight risks lowering breakpoint of rocket (potentially enough to be dangerous)

    I'm not sure if there is anything else to consider.
     
  2. I would say no as the increase of the payload may make the rocket burst dangerously low.
     
  3. hofnerite

    hofnerite UKFR Stash Photo 2018 Winner! Supports UKFR

    My question is... Why?!
     
  4. There was a discussion about rocket smoke in a family group chat and this was suggested. Presently I fully agree with @firework CJ that its not even safe enough to consider. Certainly as the effect would potentially be lost due to wind speeds but the question was asked so I thought I would ask those more in the know than me
     
  5. paul s

    paul s Supports UKFR

    Any tampering with rocket weight is asking for problems - the stick and head are balanced to ensure vertical flight.

    Adding any additional weight will at best result in dangerous flight; at worst the rocket will not lift.

    I can understand the attraction of pimping them up, but rockets are best left well alone.

    :)
     
  6. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    Sounds like being a modification of the rocket and one which wouldn't be legal.

    I'd be surprised if it could be counted as being OK under this part of the MSER regulations which I think describes the closest to what you're thinking about, but I could be so wrong! (My italics)
    Fusing firework displays.
    496 A manufacturing licence is not required for the preparation, assembly and fusing of firework displays, ie:
    (b) connecting individual fireworks together and/or attaching them to frames or other structures for display;​

    My thinking is that, although simple connecting /fusing fireworks can be counted as something not needing a licence, that would be for scenarios like cakes and making candle fans or lances in lancework. In the adding something to a rocket case, you'd be creating a new rocket that'd be meant to take flight. As such it'd be an item that hadn't passed testing and certification. That might be permitted in a professional firework company environment. But I think the new item would lose it's F2 / F3 classification and so not be allowed outside of the professional environment.
     
    Last edited: Feb 9, 2021
  7. WR3_Pyro

    WR3_Pyro Supports UKFR

    Just lob it, in my painballing days they were great fun. I did see one go a considerable distance using a sling shot once, looked effing cool too.
     
  8. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    PS.... I should perhaps add that I was looking at the "manufacturing" section of the MSER because the "Interpretation" section at the beginning of MSER says that
    “manufacture” includes -
    (a) in relation to explosive articles, their repair, modification, disassembly or unmaking;​
    There isn't a separate section about modification.
     
  9. From a modification point of view it would only be some tape tying each together. With the fuses connected... no different to taping two cakes together on 1 stake. Just a lot more dangerous.
     
  10. hofnerite

    hofnerite UKFR Stash Photo 2018 Winner! Supports UKFR

    @michael warner If you want the effect, get yourself one of these MLE cakes, available in several colours.
     
  11. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    Ooooh.... I like those MLE smoke cakes @hofnerite . I've done several daytime displays for schools and other groups. Sadly the Bright Star fanned smoke cakes I used to use aren't available anymore and I've none left.
     
    hofnerite likes this.
  12. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    I don't think so. Fuse two cakes together and they both stay on the ground where they'd usually be, and set up / secured as they'd normally be, being fired as they were intended to be. So you've have 2 distinct fireworks still. Nothing new made there. Add a smoke grenade to the rocket and the smoke unit isn't being set up & secured and used as it was intended to be and as it was tested and given it's F2 or F3 classification. You've turned the smoke unit into rocket. And, because they take off and fly as one rocket - powered by the one motor on the one stick - you've modified the original rocket to be something it wasn't when tested and classified. So I can see an argument that says you've manufactured a new single firework.
     
  13. Your almost certainly right of course.
    And @hofnerite thank you that's oddly exactly the effect I think my nan meant when we were discussing it. It is all theory I have no need or want to try it other than to see if it's possible. (But to dangerous for mere curiosity.
     
  14. Pyro Pete

    Pyro Pete Forum Editor

    We know who to blame now if this goes wrong ;)
     
  15. Tinderbox

    Tinderbox Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    Make a spud launcher from drainage pipe parts and a Rothy. That'll lob your grenades into the middle of next week. My question is, when the grenade eventually lands still chuffing out hot material, do you have the clearance? You're asking for trouble sticking it to a rocket and it's expensive and illegal.
     
    TGR likes this.
  16. Again I point out it was a hyperthetical. But I hadn't considered the risk of the grenade still being hot.
     
  17. RocketRev

    RocketRev Moderator Supports UKFR

    If there any firework brand folk following this thread.... we might have come up with an idea for a new product for next year. The Twilight Rocket or Daylight Rocket.... with a coloured smoke tail instead of a glitter tail.
    :whistle:
    :dog:
     
    fozzboy and michael warner like this.
  18. Haha It is defo possible to do it as a manufacturer. My other concern with doing it as q consumer would be that by strapping it on it could cause the rocket to track unpredictably as the weight would force it in to potentially an arc if my understanding of physics is correct. (It probably isn't) but in my head I invasion it would launch then the weight would cause it to turn head would angle down and potential catastrophe.
     
  19. mike frost

    mike frost Pro Firer/Crew

    we have a couple of guys using havoc launchers now they go miles
     
  20. pyroplayer

    pyroplayer Pro Firer/Crew Supports UKFR

    Any modification that would affect the units performance would be classed as just that, a modification, which would be illegal. Simple. Joining fuses isn't the modification, strapping it to the rocket is. As others have said, rockets are finely balanced, any change at all will dramatically affect this in a bad way.
     
    michael warner likes this.